Tuesday, September 16, 2008

Relativism and Materialism

i'll try to keep this simple.

relativism can be defined as, "any theory holding that criteria of judgment are relative, varying with individuals and their environments" and of course my contention cannot be complete without reference to wikipedia, where moral relativism is defined as, "the position that moral or ethical propositions do not reflect objective and/or universal moral truths."

in a nutshell, relativism means that everybody is right and no one is wrong - that one can say what they like but that they can also pass it off as truth.

but does that make sense? the problem with relativism, in particular moral relativism is more clearly seen in how people expect others to behave. a true relativist would agree that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. if that is so, then they would also agree that someone could do anything they wanted and not have anyone else tell them it was wrong.

what's more, relativism is an absolute in itself! relativism imposes the absolute that all truths are valid, so it's a paradox.

likewise, so many people think that all religions are equally valid, that you can take bits and pieces of different faiths and weave them together to find a perfect compromise. one such thinking is the Baha'i faith, which bases its beliefs on the "unity of religions". but how can they be united in belief if they differ from each other? how can you make a Jew believe that the Islamic Mohammed was a prophet? or how do you reconcile that Christians believe the Messiah has already come, when Jews are still waiting? faiths can't be equal when they are mutually exclusive and preclude another from being correct.

the implications are mind-boggling; a child consistently lies - "I'm allowed to lie because I believe it's right." a thief steals - "no one can tell me otherwise because everyone's entitled to their beliefs." a murderer kills - "i take life because i want to and i believe there's nothing wrong with it." this means that no one can say that Hitler was evil and that the holocaust was justified because it was just his point of view. as we know though, that argument is utter rubbish - what Hitler did was wrong.

but how do we know this? what is it that makes us know that murder is abhorrent behaviour? where did our sense of justice come from? people say it was taught to us from birth. true, but then where did our ancestors get it from? im sure evolutionists will argue it's due to survival of the species, that it's in our genes to want to keep others alive but there is inconsistency in that argument from them.

if we truly did evolve as a fish out of water, an organism by chance, then we are purely material. that in the big scheme of things we dont have "souls", we just exist purely due to chance. that we don't have a reason for living and while our actions affect those around us, who cares? a good analogy i heard was if there was a plant, rabbit and child on the road, if you were an evolutionist you wouldn't try to avoid any of them in particular because you would believe they are all equal creations due to chance. "does it matter that the child is a human? they evolved as a result of a sperm and ovum just like the rabbit, no more, no less."

so i come back to what i mentioned earlier, that we "feel" that murder is bad because it negatively affects the continuation of the species. but as an evolutionist, why would you care if the species survived or not? aren't we just creations of chance, with no personal or intrinsic values at all, purely material? and even if for some "unexplained scientific reason" we wanted our species to surive, we'd all be racists. why would a caucasian want to help prolong the survival of asians? aren't we somewhat biologically different and therefore have a desire to perpetuate the survival our own race to the detriment of other races?

Richard Dawkins, a well-know atheist writes in his book, A River Out of Eden;

In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no other good. Nothing but blind, pitiless indifference. DNA neither knows nor cares. And we dance to its music.

If our actions are dictated by our DNA, true materialism, then anyone who has ever murdered has a right to say they were merely "dancing to their DNA" and not at fault, just like if a rabid dog who mauls someone to death.

C.S. Lewis, Christian and well known author argues against this;

My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how have I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? ... Of course, I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too - for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my private fancies.1

a lot of people tend to have the answer stare them right in the face but they refuse to accept, whether by stubborness, arrogance, or both. take Dr. George Wald for instance, a Nobel Prize winner for Medicine and a professor at Harvard University who said;

When it comes to the Origin of Life there are only two possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation. There is no third way. Spontaneous Generation was disproved one hundred years ago, but that leads us to only one other conclusion, that of supernatural creation. We cannot accept that on philosophical grounds; therefore, we choose to believe the impossible: that life arose spontaneously by chance!2

by his own admission, it makes more scientific sense to believe in intelligent design
, that we were created by a higher being, who created us with a sense of purpose in our lives. but he specifically chooses to believe the opposite of the results of research, that of the impossible. what does that tell you about the objectivity of science?

anyway hopefully i've generated some food for thought and that you might invest some time yourself to read up about this. because it matters.

1. Tinker, M. "Evil, Evangelism and Ecclesiastes" Themelios 28.2 (Spring 2003): 4-15
2. "The Origin of Life," Scientific American, 191:48, May 1954

4 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greg, interesting post. indeed a good distraction from my studies!

A few comments:

Regarding the origin of life, just because one theory (e.g. spontaneous generation) was disproven, doesn’t mean we should accept the idea of intelligent design and that a ‘supernatural power’ (such as a Christian ‘God’) created the universe. I’m not exactly sure what Dr. Wald meant when he referred to 'philosophical grounds', but I’m guessing he is suggesting that he, like many others, don’t believe in the idea of supernatural creation because there is simply no clear (and objective?) evidence. For me, it seems like intelligent design theory was conjured up to justify the existence of God, and one that is in line with a Christian view. Why can’t evolutionary theory be accepted alongside the possibility of a “god’?

Yes, from what I know (which isn’t much) the idea of evolution according to Dawkins is fairly extreme in its implications. But I think in your discussion, you’ve oversimplified some ideas which perhaps discount the value of evolutionary theory. From what I understand, evolution basically refers to change in response to an environment and change can happen at a micro/macro, biological/psychological/societal etc level. At the end of the day, our understanding of these changes and the complex processes behind them is limited to our knowledge, which however will hopefully continue expanding over time. I’m sure that we (humans) will discover new findings and theories in future which will further challenge Christian ideas, and in response, it is likely that Christians will come up with arguments (as the case with Intelligent design) to defend their faith and knowledge which unfortunately lack scientific substance, and in some ways are counterproductive to the advancement of science.

On a related note, I think one area you may have overlooked is that culture, beliefs, values etc can be considered as characteristics that evolve/develop/change over time in some sort of dynamic relationship with our physiology, our environment etc. Perhaps related to this is the concept of ‘memes’ (first mentioned by Dawkins) which refer to ideas or behaviours that pass on from one person to another by learning or imitation. According to meme theorists, culture, personal values, theories, ideas etc are like genes that evolve over time and face the challenges of surviving in much the same as DNA does. For example, Christianity as a collection of memes has adapted to its environment over time for the sake of its survival. You will no doubt try to spread the word of Christianity to others...

By the way, I personally think it is possible to be spiritual and believe in a god as well appreciate the merit behind ideas such as evolutionary theory, natural selection etc, though as you can probably tell, I don’t really believe in a particular god.

Cheers,
Dave

Saturday, September 20, 2008 12:23:00 am  
Blogger greggie said...

Dave!

Finally some affirmation that someone still actually reads this blog! haha

Yes, I simplified evolution to a very brief paragraph or two because there is just too much to go into detail, and I was in fact hoping for specific questions in response so that I would only need to reply to inquisitive minds such as yourself instead of writing my own thesis on this blog.

Evolution the way I used it in my post referred largely to the biological. I agree with micro-evolution, that species can "adapt" to their environment over some years however I do not believe in macro-evolution where one organism can become over time a different organism altogether.

You do bring up a good point though, that our knowledge of these processes are limited and I believe it will be the case until the "end of time" because we have finite minds, whereas an intelligent designer would hold the key to all the answers by virtue of the fact that they created everything.

I also agree that there will always be a cycle of non-Christians arguing against creationism and Christians defending it. Something to note is that throughout the history of man, creationism has always been able to be argued whereas developed scientific thought is relatively young and has yet to be able to prove the non-existence of an intelligent designer. A pure objective mind would say then that neither science or faith holds, purely due to the fact that on tangible evidence neither can be physically proven.

I also believe in logic, and that theism is more logical than atheism. If there wasn't an intelligent designer, then the only other theory that holds is that "nothing created everything" by way of spontaneous evolution. I believe we are able to use logic and hence science to learn more about our world because it was created in a logical way, and not by randomness, which would be much more difficult to investigate. However I do accept that there will be too much for us to fully and comprehensively know. Logic also tells me that the more logically complex an item, the more intelligent its designer.

With regards to meme, I would once again point to logic. Bibles that conservative Evangelical Christians approve of are no different than original manuscripts (with variations in expression but not ideas), and that conservative doctrine has not changed. This theory of historicity is counter-cultural with our society today which believes that by and large Christian ideas are outdated and obsolete, and that the "enlightenment" of man has given us knowledge which could disprove something from history. So if any school of thought has evolved over time, it is the propagation of non-Christian sentiment, and that conservative Christian theology has not adapted to suit its environment, but in fact has dictated environment since the beginning.

But I'm glad you raised some of the points you did so we can have some thoughtful and meaningful dialogue. Look forward to discussing more.


Greg

Monday, September 29, 2008 10:03:00 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you think logically, how can you explain the force (if any) behind divine creation? is not the existence of supernatural beings another humanistic attempt to explain something as unexplainable as spontaneous creation? to believe that the world and universe was created from a central figure or God, what can be said for the creation of said God?

I think this is the sort of question that many atheists can relate to, and although it answers no questions at all, i can't help but wonder why Christians can't see that "nothing created everything" falls in line with the ideas that God created everything. being that no one can say they were there at the time of "creation" i see only the birth of "self awareness", the mental capacity to think beyond the survivalist needs of a being.

Unfortunately, i think its a thing that is well beyond normal human capacity to comprehend in a single lifetime, and ultimately its the beliefs system in play again, how individuals need to convince themselves that their existence came about either explained by believing in the findings and arguments of religion or sciences. again, no one person can say with ABSOLUTE certainty that one is right and another is wrong when you have such clear cut differences, a black and white.

I am ashamed to say that i have found no comfort from either side, and those blurred collectives of modern society "sub-religion" are looking to be all the more like my kind of niche area. i'm well aware of its downfalls but, being unable to say i belong to either of the main "camps" its almost like i don't belong anywhere. spontaneously generating a "solution" as ill fitting as it is.

-anonymous...

Monday, October 27, 2008 7:22:00 pm  
Blogger greggie said...

Oops very delayed response, my apologies.

"Nothing created everything". I guess that's where Christians and atheists agree to disagree, since we believe God isn't nothing.

Personally, I see it as only logical that a superior being such as a god would have certain qualities, one such quality being never created but eternally existing. So that makes more sense to me than a god who was created, because that begs the question, "then who created that god?" and so on and so forth - what sort of god would this god be if they were created? I dare say a very weak one.

As with everything else (creation) being created out of nothing, that would be believing the impossible (as George Wald said). I don't think it's valid to compare beginnings of creation with philosophical beginnings of creator - God by his nature can't be created. Likewise, creation by its nature can be created.

But I agree that in our earthly lifetimes, we won't be able to say with absolute certainty that one is right and another is wrong, and that's where Christians rely on faith to bridge that gap. I guess the question is whether, as an individual, you choose to accept something that bridges the gap, or to point and stare at it and then do nothing about the gap.

Friday, September 04, 2009 12:18:00 am  

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